Why did Hamas agree to release the hostages?

Yes, the arguments have moved on, as you said, “Well, actually, the school or the hospital had to be bombed for military reasons, and it was a legitimate military target” to just outright denial regarding the question of the famine. There was a little bit of “We don’t want to give food to Hamas,” but the real argument was “People aren’t starving.” It was just a denial of reality.

Yes, it was about Hamas propaganda. It got to the point where Donald Trump said: Sorry, you can’t fake this. This is real starvation. You can’t fake this kind of thing. So I think that really affected people, and once you realize that maybe Israel is not the light of the world that you were raised to believe, I think that changes something – and it’s irreversible. So you don’t see the effects now, but over time we will certainly see the effects in terms of policy, and ultimately policy. Now, if only our democracies mean anything,

So we won’t see it.

If we take the authoritarian path, yes.

Last week, I felt that when it became clear that Hamas would give up the hostages, the momentum shifted in favor of completing this deal, and even Netanyahu could not back down. I’m curious why Hamas hasn’t handed over the hostages in a while. Let’s put the moral issue aside. I don’t think Hamas was very concerned about that. But, in practice, I don’t quite understand why they didn’t try this strategy. It seemed as if the hostages didn’t get much from them. Much of the reason the war continued revolved around the hostages, even when it was clear to people paying attention that the Israeli government and Netanyahu did not care about the hostages. This was the only justification left for the Israelis.

I’ve also wondered about that. It has also become clear in my mind that if the hostages are their only source of influence, well, they don’t have much influence anymore, because Netanyahu has made it clear that he prefers his perpetual war to the hostages. So why don’t they call his bluff and say, “Okay, here are all the hostages”? They could have done that. I don’t know why they didn’t do that. They may have never come to that conclusion – perhaps they were still clinging to the idea that this was the last bit of their influence, and if they gave it up, they would literally have nothing, and perhaps they thought that would look like surrender. I don’t know. But I think you’re right. I don’t think it was really an influence anymore. This was just a talking point for the Israelis. The whole speech was very sarcastic.

Do you have any optimistic outlook on what this deal will mean for Gaza in the medium term? I hope that a short-term truce will mean much more adequate food and aid coming in, but do you have any hope beyond that?

I think the road ahead will be very difficult. I haven’t been on the ground in Gaza for the past two years, but from everything I’ve seen and read, it’s going to be difficult. I don’t even know that Gaza is a place where humans can continue to live in any meaningful way. Almost everything has been destroyed. There is almost nothing left, even in Gaza City. All hospitals are basically not functioning. There are no universities. There are no schools. There are no roads. There are no sewage treatment plants, and no infrastructure. Everything has been destroyed. What will it take to rebuild? Obviously it would take enormous resources, and I don’t know if they will be there. There may be some kind of donor conference and all kinds of pledges, but will these pledges be fulfilled? If history is any indication, it’s likely that only a small portion will be released.

I worry that people will leave the country in the medium to long term. If people are able to leave, those who can will Leave, and who can blame them? People just want to live a normal life. They will say: “I have no job and my house is gone. My workplace is gone. There is no place to send my children to school.” So I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we see some kind of exodus over the next several years, just because people have to survive. They will go wherever they are allowed to go. I’m sure a lot of European countries and the United States will close their doors to people fleeing Gaza, but they will go wherever they can go.

Therefore, I do not know whether Gaza will be able to recover. It saddens me greatly to say this, because we are talking about a community of two million people. Gaza City is the largest city in Palestine. It is one of the oldest places on earth. There is a lot that is lost. Beyond just basic, immediate livelihoods, can Gaza survive? I don’t know.

What about the possibility of Hamas disarming and Israel actually withdrawing its forces?

These two are related. They are very connected. It will be very difficult to disarm Hamas under any circumstances, because that is its raison d’être. It is a resistance movement, and giving up its weapons before the Israeli occupation ends, and before the Palestinians get their state, seems like surrender. So, on the face of it, it will be very difficult, but it will be especially difficult when we know that there will be an indefinite Israeli military presence on the ground in most of Gaza — or at least in very large parts of it, up to the edges of population centers, assuming that people are allowed to return to the north.